Friday, January 9, 2009

9 days in Beijing, what to do?

OK, so playing the frequent flyer game, I managed to end up with some tickets that have me and family (4 people, all adults) arriving in Beijing at 8pm on Thursday, July 8, and departing at noon on Monday, July 19.

I have never been to China, but I guess I wouldn't want to spend the whole time in Beijing. What would the gurus of Flyertalk recommend that we do/go/see?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

China destiantion guides:
http://english.ctrip.com/Destinations/DestinationGuides.asp

I recommend Terracotta Warriors, Huaqing Pool and Mount Huashan in Xian,
Mogao Grottoes, Crescent Moon Spring, the Singing Sand Mountains in Dunhuang, and Heaven's Lake in Mount Tianshan in Urumqi.

In no way would I hire a taxi driver to go more than 1 mile in Beijing. I got ripped off once. It happens a lot. The driver took the long way to the Temple of Heaven thinking I did not know the route. Hah! More importantly the taxis are small and drivers can be careless at the wheel. [Right, not so different here in D.C.] Do you really want to spend your vacation careening around the city & countryside worried about the safety of your family? Plus Beijing is super crowded on the roads (not to mention the myriad of bikes mixing in).

This is why I recommend hiring a driver! Seemed like sheer luxury at first, I now consider the $100/day a necessity. No stops at "friends stores" or anything. Plus once we got to know the driver, we hired him "privately". That is, we negotiated the price.

How this came about. We wanted to visit the Great Wall, etc. but not on a tour. I asked the Concierge to set something up. The driver was great & spoke very good English. Turns out the "Red Car Service" is actually some arm of the Chinese government. (Yes, I kept looking for a microphone or camera in the car ;D) so he technically works for the government. It's China, what can I say? Besides tourists aren't allowed to rent cars there. I also assume there is a high standard for those driving for the gov't service - the government likes to put on it's best face for the Westerners. i.e. Driver should be Educated. Knows where he's going (and the secret back entrance to the Summer Palace which shaves time off waiting in line). Polite. Doesn't try to rip you off. The car is clean (we had a roomy new Mercedes-like sedan). Versus this: Many of the taxi drivers are fresh from the countryside (read: farmers) trying to make some fast cash. This doesn't necessarily mean they know their way around Beijing or even to Mutianyu.

When the driver doesn't have a job (assignment) from the gov't, he freelances. On the second trip, we sketched out our needs. Airport pickup (too good to be true after a 13 hour flight); day of tooling around Beijing to lesser known sites (sidenote: skip Prince Gong's Mansion; Lama Temple = a must see) & shopping - bonus: he carried my bags & was quite helpful negotiating! At the end of the trip, he quoted us some fee that was much lower than had we booked him the "official" way. We did tip generously. Not that tipping is sanctioned by the gov't but it's my own little way of thanking him for driving safely & being so kind + knowledgeable. And he was happy to take US$ as payment.

Dick, if any of your party is keen on shopping pick up "Born to Shop China (Beijing etc.)" by Suzy Gershman. My own little bible with many valuable non-shopping tips as well. I find her advice quite accurate & humorous.

Richard - I don't think there are any 5* foreign-branded hotels in Chengde, but a few google search show these two 4* over and over: Sheng Hua (a highrise in city center) and Qing Yang (a lowrise near the summer palace). I haven't been to Chengde for a while, so can't tell you more about those hotels.

Just exactly how much was this cab fare? Beijing has lots of traffic and getting stuck in it is not uncommon, even for tourists. I sincerely hope you didn't overreact over a few bucks... On the other hand, if the cab fare was more than a HUNDRED YUAN than you probably got ripped off. Even at a hundred kuai, we're only talking about 1,200 yen.

We got the cabbie down to 300 Yuan , the meter said something like 500 !!!! The meter did strange things , like the number switching on and off when the car lurched forward........I never quibble over small sums, ever. But in this case the cabbie deserved what he got! He was only trying to take advantage of us because he thought he could get away with the language barrier..........hopefully he learned his lesson.

Should I be worried about that? Is a guide even a good idea?

i just posted once and was rejected so here's a summary of the previous post.

-use guides only as needed; hire a taxi driver (i have many referrals; one used by an fter who reported good results) for farway places
-rent bikes and explore hutongs (no guide require; just a map); my late SU prof mike oksenberg swore that this was the single best way to learn about beijing
-per the previous poster's suggsestion, spend a day+ on a side trip such as inner mongolial (ride horses), the beach, or some other random place

email me if you want more advice.

In no way would I hire a taxi driver to go more than 1 mile in Beijing. I got ripped off once. It happens a lot.

my experiences differ greatly from yours. sure, there are stories about people getting taken for rides -but that happens everywhere. as long as you carry a map, know where you are (beijing is VERY easy to navigate), and remain vaguely conscious, you should be fine. regarding car hires, for $100 you should be able to get a 10+ passener van to take you just about anywhere. expect to pay between $40 and $60 if you only need a modest-sized sedan (buick, citroen, audi, etc).

there's really no need for dollars at all. possible exceptions:

-if you want to tip someone but prevent the establishment from taking a cut
-when negotiating for fake stuff, i'll occasionally use a mix of currencies in order to smokescreen the merchant

[QUOTE=Q Shoe Guy] I decided to go to the summer palace one day.[QUOTE]

the summer palace can be hell to get to in the summer. in fact, one day, we just got out and walked the last 2 miles because the traffic was absolutely stagnant.

i like the summer palace though. in fact, i almost went swimming with the locals once until i witnessed an unsanitary act in the lake.

We're just finishing two weeks of Beijing-Xi'an-Guilin-Shanghai-Huangshan-Hangzhou-Suzhou. Great trip, especially if you like architecture, art, older-ancient culture, scenery, etc. We did no shopping. Stayed in major Western hotel chains for the most part, many of which were very nice. Most inter-city travel was by plane.

If you have similar interests, I recommend a similar itinerary.

While we booked guides in advance, you don't need one.

Which I am presuming you will do at some point. The "traditional" market in Beijing is the silk market next to the Friendship store on Jianguomewai, and its huge. However, we stayed at the Holiday Inn Lido, and there is another, smaller market opposite here, but where the prices were much cheaper (the starting point of haggling is much lower at this one...). Just something to bear in mind

IME there are lots of places to buy that stuff and the Lido is a of a schlep unless you happen to be staying up there. Frankly Beijing is not a good market in general (you can get comparable merchandise in Guangzhou/Shenzhen for a fraction of Beijing prices). On the other hand, nothing in China is going to break your bank so shop liberally and have fun.

moondog, I think your standard drill should start with checking that the meter has been reset :) otherwise, it is good advice.

In any event, given how cheap cabs are in China anyway, getting ripped off is usually a matter of a buck or two, nothing worth stressing about.

Also, note that there are different cab prices based on the size of the cab. So, the same ride on the return will not necessarily cost the same as the fare going. The prices are clearly marked by the passenger doors though.

I have to admit that I'm also anti-LP, plus it is unquestionably geared towards the budget set. Having said that, it hard to dispute the fact that LP is leagues ahead of the pack insofar as China is concerned. When I first started coming to China in the early 90s, I found it to be an absolute necessity. (I find Fodor's particularly useless.) If you don't want to buy it, I suggest you borrow one from a friend/library (there are tons floating around).

Regarding the star system, just knock one star off and you'll be ok. For true 5-stars, stick to the brands you know and trust. (I find Shangri-La, though not always 5-star, to be fairly reliable.)

Some interesting ideas for starters -- I should add that my company is opening an office in Shanghai which I will have plenty of business reasons to visit in the future, so I am disinclined to go to the Shanghai area on this vacation.

I am worried that if I hire a guide for our smallish group, there is a good chance I won't get a good one. I am an experienced traveler and would quickly replace any guide who kept touting us into his friends' places, but we don't have that much time and it would be a waste to go through the selection process multiple times. Should I be worried about that? Is a guide even a good idea?

Just wanted to post a reply about the infamous cabbies in Beijing. My cousin and I decided to go to the summer palace one day. We took the subway most of the way and decided against taking the bus (it was really hot) and took (or almost taken :( ) a taxi. Should have figured things out that the guy had no intention of taking us to where we wanted to go. We ended up in a traffic jam and about an hour and many Yuan later made it to the palace. My cousin (a large and imposing guy) was not one to be taken advantage of.......while he and the cabbie were fighting it out about the extortionist fare ..........I took down his name and drivers number(I can write Japanese so my Kanji weren't illegible). When we got back to the hotel I complained to the GM about our cab experience and handed her the particulars about the driver. She got in touch with Police who then tracked the cabbie down and brought him to our hotel. He was forced to apologise and then gave us our money. The police then took him away........So , that was our one cab experience, and yes I have also had bad experiences in many other countries too(including Japan). So beware and be sure to write down the cabbies name and licence number should you need it.

Were you able to use credit cards in China and Hong Kong? Our local travel agent said China did not recognize our US banks and that cash was the only thing accepted (not even travelers' checks). What was your experience?

cards are accepted at most establishments i frequent, but i usually carry around $50 at all times because taxis, street stalls, and local restaurants don't take plastic. atms are fairly ubiquitous, but some don't take US cards and others go offline fairly often.

I don't know if this has been asked before but I'll ask anyway -- should the cash be in both dollars and yuans? I assume that the local ATMs just dispense yuans and I should bring dollars in small denominations.

as long as you're willing to jump on an airplane, why not go some place nicer than xian, chengde, or inner mongolia? (since you asked, inner mongolia is pretty much just like you'd expect it to be; vast grasslands, horses a plenty, opportunity to sleep in mongolian yert, eat wierd lamb dishes, etc).

off the top of my head, kunming, chengdu, and dalian could be good options,... but it really depends on what interests you (history, mountains, relaxation, food, etc).

i suggest you buy a lonely planet, do some research on your own, then post here for feedback.

I will of course research more, admittedly, I thought of FT first!

Have to confess I am mildly anti-Lonely Planet, especially after reading an article online (which I can no longer find) called something like "The Prisoners of Tony Wheeler." But that often means I read Lonely Planet in the bookstore and buy "Rough Guide."

However, the first guidebook I have bought is (surprisingly) the just updated Frommer's guide to Beijing which impressed me by containing no-nonsense comments on the uselessness of both the Chinese National Tourist Office and the "official" hotel rating system.

[QUOTE=moondog
i like the summer palace though. in fact, i almost went swimming with the locals once until i witnessed an unsanitary act in the lake.[/QUOTE]

I too liked the Summer Palace , Beijing(and environs), Xian, Shanghai, Guilin(Yangshou) and HK :) . Would love to go back when it's not quite so hot(it was a cool 42 in Beijing, at least there wasn't any humidity like here in Japan). China has changed so much.......

4-5 days in Beijing should give you enough time to see the most famous sites, so you can think about visits to one of two other cities. Shanghai is of course a huge commercial center, but within a few hours of train-ride you can go to Suzhou or Hangzhou, both famous for their "South of the River (Yangtze)" scenery.

Or you can go to Xi'an, the capital during parts of the Han and Tang dynasties, with more ancient artifacts. Two days is usually enough.

Or Guilin in the Southwest - for its distinctive scenery along the Li River.

From Beijing, you can fly to any of these cities; and from Beijing to Shanghai/Hangzhou or Xi'an, you can also take one of the several overnight trains, and both trips take about 14 hours. The A/C'ed "soft sleeper" sleeps four in a cabin.

Thanks, will do as the date gets a bit closer. In fact I just realized we arrive the night of July 8 and leave July 19, which is more like 12 days, so I guess we need to make one-two field trips from Beijing?

Maybe one of them should be to Chengde, which sounds interesting (although it seems to have no good hotels, any thoughts?), maybe the second to Xian? What's in Inner Mongolia and how do you get there?

Welcome to FT, however, since I haven't been to Beijing (that was why I asked the question that started this thread), I don't know the detailed answers. But at a minimum, international chain hotels will take U.S. credit cards in China.

Also, I've found that it's generally unnecessary in FT to ask the same question in multiple threads -- usually people catch it if you post in once.

If you're looking for a really cool place to eat dinner in Beijing, check out the Green T. House (http://www.greenteahouse.com.cn/)! Quite the place and experience, very unassuming on the outside, eclectic would be an understatement, food and service is excellent, and presentation was very creative! You probably need to make reservations on busy nights. Not cheap either, though I was the guest of the party and didn't have to pay! :p

Oh, and you gotta check out the washroom there, even if only to wash your hands! :D :cool:

Which I am presuming you will do at some point. The "traditional" market in Beijing is the silk market next to the Friendship store on Jianguomewai, and its huge. However, we stayed at the Holiday Inn Lido, and there is another, smaller market opposite here, but where the prices were much cheaper (the starting point of haggling is much lower at this one...). Just something to bear in mind

Jenbel - a confirmed LP fan, who thinks the Chinese version is the most amusing of the books I own so far - authors have a very dry way with words...

I was in Beijing a couple of weeks ago, and major hotels and formal restaurants accept credit cards without any trouble, but for the rest you'll need cash. Most major hotels have a currency exchange.

I've figured out where we're going outside of Beijing. First to Xi'an (everybody gotta do it once, I guess!) and then Dunhuang. Dunhuang is in the Gobi desert and it will be hot, hot but Magao caves sound really interesting and different. Local travel agent did the internal flights -- I did the hotels. There seems to be a good hotel in Dunhuang and we bargained with the owning company, who is located in Hong Kong and likes the idea of being prepaid in USD outside of China!

Skipping Shanghai since I will be there on business in September, probably. And at the risk of being forced to eat sacred cow, the Three Gorges sounds rather ordinary and touristy, especially given the portion of river level raising that's already been done.

You will like Dunhuang. The Buddhist grottoes are amazing. The colors have held up amazingly well over the years. Try to brush up on your knowledge of Buddhism before you go though; otherwise, the tour guide's explanations will quickly go over your head.

If you don't want to go too far from Beijing, at least go to Chengde. It's ~250km NE of the capital, 4 hours by the fastest train. Chengde is the location of a large summer palace, and there are a whole series of extremely interesting and significant Tibetian-Buddhism temples surround the city built about 350 years ago. Worth two night stay there.

Not sure exactly what moondog is recommending, but just where exactly does someone find an English speaking taxi driver in Beijing? Without trying to indict all the cabbies in Beiing, note that there are a lot of crooked ones that queque at the Western hotels in Beijing. Their best trick is to have the meter already running when they pull up to the front door. So, the first thing you should do when you get in the cab is to see that the meter is reset...

As for places to visit in Beijing, you could easily spend an entire week in the city. It is a big city, so it can get tiring trying to see everything in only a couple of days. For example, I only visited the Lama Temple, apparently one of the major tourist highlights, for the first time on my most recent trip, and I've probably spent more than 20 "tourist days" in Beijing over the past decade.

Also agree with the others that you should take at least one side trip away from Beijing. Of the usual suspects, I would rank Shanghai over Xian and Guilin. Inner Mongolia could be interesting, but you would need to go through a travel agency for that...

Not sure exactly what moondog is recommending, but just where exactly does someone find an English speaking taxi driver in Beijing?

i didn't mean to suggest that they speak english, but language shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as you remain vigilent. here's the standard drill:

-have your address written in chinese (often a hotel business card)
-tell the driver you need a receipt (fapiao)
-know where you're going (by referencing your map)
-if they try to rip you off, give them what you think is fair and walk

perhaps the most important thing to remember is that there's no reason to fear beijing cabbies. there's an implicit understanding that they will get the third degree if they're caught trying to swindle a foreigner so they generally backed down when pushed.

fwiw these observations are based on cumulative knowledge gleaned from in upwards of 2,000 cab rides in china.

btw i also recommend dunhuang.

while 9 days could be a little on the long side, there is definitely a lot to see/do in pek (certainly more than the 5 days many tourists allocate).

for starters, i would go to one of the better great wall sites -- simatai or huanghua -- the latter only if you are in very good shape and don't panic easily.

you could also spend a day doing the summer palace, xiangshan (fragrent hills), and maybe the ming tombs.

i gotta make a break for brunch now, but i'll try to write more later.

in short, given the choice between extra time in pek and xian, i'd choose the former any day.

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Posted by rose |

9 days in Beijing, what to do?

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