Friday, January 9, 2009
Downgrading Confirmed Upgrades on Oversold Flights
On 6 February the availability was showing:
J2 C0 Y9 M9 B9 H9 V9 Q9 L9 N9 U9 A9 I0
UPDATE:
On 7 February the availability is now showing:
J0 C0 Y9 M9 B9 H9 V9 Q9 L9 N9 U9 A9 I0
I'm not sure if this means that J class is close to being sold-out or oversold.
We have CONFIRMED I class upgrades using my Prestige SWUs from M fares purchased back in July 2005.
Is there a risk of being downgraded in this case?
Do these types of downgrades happen often?
Will I be contacted prior to my flight if we are downgraded in order to maybe make alternate arrangements?
I'm planning on using Web Check-in and going to the airport early. Other than that, is there anything that I can do to help ensure we won't be the ones downgraded?
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
What a bizarre system. As an E I would happily concede that if an a/c changed, a P booked on a Y/M and confirmed weeks ahead of me travelling on a B/H/Q etc should have priority over me. It is the only FAIR way.
This system means that due to a purely random event, completely outside of the control of the pax can allow other pax to line jump - when the original pax deliberately paid extra to secure the u/g in advance.
Here's a friendly challenge - can an SE even start to defend this as being the fair way? :)
I love these FT problems.
Hope you are right stinger. My curiosity was merely aroused because it seems that in the event of an a/c change the u/g system reverts to status and time of check-in and abandons those who bought their u/g in advance. So I wondered if this occurs with any a/c change, be it up or down in J capacity - after all this scenario will occur when a 25J 763 goes to either a 30J 763 or to a 343 so it must happen.
I really would be astonished if your theory is not the case in this situation.
Qualification of the SE status is based on distance flown, NOT revenue contribution.
7 Canada/Asia roundtrip in deep discount economy at about $1,500/trip return an SE status. Total spent +/-$10,000. 3 Canada/Asia roundtrips in J at about $8,000/trip return an E status. Total spent +/- $24,000.
Which customer did AC earn more profit? The SE or the E?
You have certainly shown one clear example of where a sweeping general statement can be shown to be incorrect. The majority of SE's would probably spend more than most E's. Not all but most is what I said and stand by those comments.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter how you received your status, just that you have it. There may be some out there who don't think I deserve mine since I don't pay for my flights out of my pocket but rather my companies. Many different perspectives, I just happen to be on the winning team this time for this year. Remember, things always change.
Therefore, use your travel budget wisely. Travel a few more times in discount economy to accrue extra Status Miles rather than few times in the more expensive full business class to hit SE. Then, all that we are talking in this Thread are non issue.
In the past, I have always thought that higher status is not very important if I am flying J. The truth of the matter is that it does.
You don't have the status so you don't like the rules. Get the status and then enjoy the rules, until then stop crying about not being SE. ;)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Told you it was indefensible :p :p
But to answer your question -- no -- I would not ask a Gate Agent to bump an E or P with a confirmed upgrade in order to get into J -- and I doubt the Gate Agent would do it either. I rarely leave it that late anyway.
Nah, I could never make SE unfortunately, nor do I think for one minute as myself being a victim :) . I've missed just one transatlantic u/g in two years so I have no complaints about being bumped by anyone.
It is fun understanding whether many SE's have a DYKWIA streak in them though, particularly as stinger mentioned earlier the SE/E/P is a kind of class system, hence my question :D
However my question was not to an SE asking the Gate Agent (I agree they would not do it), it was asking the Concierge as it is specifically their role to assist SE's and J pax.
My guess is that any SE that has had a J seat "found" for them in a full cabin by a Concierge has been accomodated at the expense of some other poor b***er being bumped down.
But looking at it from an E that's a bit unfair don't you think?. Someone pays the extra long in advance to get the u/g confirmed and then the a/c changes on the day of the flight. An SE on a much lower fare booked just days ahead now jumps over the E in the line.
If the a/c had stayed the same as scheduled it would not have happened. Surely all those who originally had the confirmed J u/g on the original a/c have the priority?. Obviously not :confused:
Although I'm only an E, I tend to agree with the SE point of view. The P pax may have paid more for this single flight and way in advance, but the SE has paid more, and more often to attain his SE to be able to benefit during circumstances such as these. One time versus track record, I think the track record speaks for itself.
I telephoned reservations in Montreal. The agent initially didn't have the answer but contacted his help desk/supervisor.
According to the agent, my reservation is "confirmed" and we will not be downgraded/bumped from J (unless we are unfortunate in an aircraft change).
He explained that AC does not oversell the J cabin. Therefore, all "confirmed" tickets will get a seat in J. If a SE buys a J/C ticket, then AC will ask for volunteers to give up their seat for compensation but no one will be downgraded/bumped involuntarily.
Therefore, no risk of being downgraded in this case.
(However, my fingers are still crossed that aircraft doesn't change to a 25J 763)
No, I am talking in generality.
For example, if you have $16,000 in travel budget to make 2 semi-annual trips to HKG from YYZ on full business class, for the same money, it's better to take 7 trips in combination of flexible and discount economy fares using SSWU and SWU. You will be an SE instead of an E.
The key to win this game is to become an SE at minimum costs, until AC/AE wake up one day that its current methodology in awarding SE is flawed, and unfairly discriminate against some other high yield but low volume travellers.
I am only looking out for my interest's and if that means stepping on someone else, than so be it. I have on occassion bumped people off flights when making last minute switches. (Obviously you don't get to pick the person) I particularly remember a converstion I overheard in YXS about how a confirmed seat goes missing in the lounge awaiting to board the Dash. I didn't tell them that I had changed my timing so one of the two people would be taking the later flight.
OK, here is a question for the pampered SE's :p
Imagine if the J cabin is full and the waitlist has not cleared. Would you consider "pulling rank" over any E's or P's in the J cabin and see if one can be downgraded in order for you as the SE to have the seat.
I'm thinking of instances where say an E or P on an u/g cert has already checked in and has the J BP. Does there come a time when a "quiet word" is had with a Concierge to see if something can be done?
I'm sure I will be fascinated by the answers :)
A flight is scheduled to be a 25J config 763 and J is full. There are some (lets say 3) E's and P's who upgraded long in advance at time of booking on Y/M fares. And in this scenario here are 8 pax on the J waitlist - a mixture of SE, E and P who all requested the u/g in their 7/4/2 day windows.
On the day of the flight the a/c gets upgraded to a 30J 763. The three E's and P's who thought they had secured their u/g arrive at 60-90 minutes prior to the flight (why arrive earlier? - they had their u/g confirmed when they booked).
The SE, E and P pax who are on the waitlist deliberately check-in much earlier to increase their chances of the u/g. In between the aircraft is changed from 25J to 30J.
Is anyone going to tell me that the 3 pax who upgraded way in advance are now bounced into Y and the 8 P/E/SE pax from the waitlist and earlier check-in get the 5 available J seats?
I could be wrong and I am sure someone will tell me but. In this situation the three with the confirmed upgrades would keep their confirmed seats. With respect to the remaining 8 SE/E/P's they would get their upgrades for the five new seats according to status. So there should be 3 people who did not get their upgrade on this flight but were never confirmed. There will also be five happy people who received their upgrade due to an equipment change.
I love these FT problems.
A flight is scheduled to be a 25J config 763 and J is full. There are some (lets say 3) E's and P's who upgraded long in advance at time of booking on Y/M fares. And in this scenario here are 8 pax on the J waitlist - a mixture of SE, E and P who all requested the u/g in their 7/4/2 day windows.
On the day of the flight the a/c gets upgraded to a 30J 763. The three E's and P's who thought they had secured their u/g arrive at 60-90 minutes prior to the flight (why arrive earlier? - they had their u/g confirmed when they booked).
The SE, E and P pax who are on the waitlist deliberately check-in much earlier to increase their chances of the u/g. In between the aircraft is changed from 25J to 30J.
Is anyone going to tell me that the 3 pax who upgraded way in advance are now bounced into Y and the 8 P/E/SE pax from the waitlist and earlier check-in get the 5 available J seats?
That's a no-brainer. The 5 waitlisted pax with the highest status should get the seats.
Aeroplan upgrade certificates Vs. comp. upgrades.( passes)
Who should get bumped first there?
comp. upgrades get booked in J class while certificates are in I. When I asked this question the other day, I was just given a dumb look. Still didn't get a clear answer on this one. Would love to know your thoughts. This should keep all of you going for a while. ;)
That is actually an excellent point. So what possible logic dictates this is then turned totally on it's head if there is an a/c change?. The higher fare paying E and P pax have priority over a lower fare paying SE at the time of booking (so the fare paid takes u/g priority) but then due to an a/c change completely outside of the pax control reverse this priority :confused: :confused:
I look forward to seeing any replies defending this :D :D
Hey s9- as a business student- could you possibly explain your thinking here?
Does anyone CHOOSE to spend more when they COULD have spent less? I am curious about your answer- today I have confirmed a meeting in YYZ tomorrow- this means leaving my house at 2100 EST (0300 GMT+1), flying basically all night, and going straight into a meeting. So what is the way I COULD have spent less and still worked properly? This should be interesting...
A flight is scheduled to be a 25J config 763 and J is full. There are some (lets say 3) E's and P's who upgraded long in advance at time of booking on Y/M fares. And in this scenario here are 8 pax on the J waitlist - a mixture of SE, E and P who all requested the u/g in their 7/4/2 day windows.
On the day of the flight the a/c gets upgraded to a 30J 763. The three E's and P's who thought they had secured their u/g arrive at 60-90 minutes prior to the flight (why arrive earlier? - they had their u/g confirmed when they booked).
The SE, E and P pax who are on the waitlist deliberately check-in much earlier to increase their chances of the u/g. In between the aircraft is changed from 25J to 30J.
Is anyone going to tell me that the 3 pax who upgraded way in advance are now bounced into Y and the 8 P/E/SE pax from the waitlist and earlier check-in get the 5 available J seats?
At the end of the day it doesn't matter how you received your status, just that you have it. There may be some out there who don't think I deserve mine since I don't pay for my flights out of my pocket but rather my companies. Many different perspectives, I just happen to be on the winning team this time for this year. Remember, things always change.
Yep. I'm one of those SE bottom feeders. AC has made it clear that status is based more on time spent with your butt in the seat than based on revenue.
I got my SE status mostly from lots of Canada-Asia long hauls. However, I did 9 longhaul flights last year. Sure, I (or my company) probably only spent 20k on these (plus another 8k on shorthaul flights). But if you're paying for J, then you don't have to worry about being bumped by an SE on an upgrade!
As much as I understand that, I think that if I was an E, who had just confirmed my upgrade a few days prior, and there was a P who was on an M fare, and had the upgrade confirmed months in advance, I would think it fair for the P to get the upgrade over me. Not that I should be complaining, because I am Elite, but to me it makes sense that they do it by order of when you confirmed your upgrade.
Therefore, use your travel budget wisely. Travel a few more times in discount economy to accrue extra Status Miles rather than few times in the more expensive full business class to hit SE. Then, all that we are talking in this Thread are non issue.
In the past, I have always thought that higher status is not very important if I am flying J. The truth of the matter is that it does.
care to elaborate, I assume you are talking about a situation where after all upgrades are downgraded, they must downgrade pax who paid full J?
I agree for normal waitlists at the 2-4-7 day windows. SE's rightly get priority, they have earnt it and by default they have contributed more miles (not necessarily revenue).
But when a confirmed u/g on a Y/M fare weeks / months in advance is bounced purely due to an a/c change on the day of the flight?. When the pax paying the higher fare deliberately paid extra to secure it and specifically selected a certain flight due to "I" availability. Come on - defending the indefensible springs to mind.
At the 2/4/7 day window - OK we all take our chances here. NOT on one secured long in advance.
The answer is "NO", according to a written reply that I received from AC Customer Solutions when I wrote a letter of complaint. Andrew may confirm if that Policy has changed though.
You are merely yanked from J, re-assigned a Y seat and put back on the airport upgrade standby list BEHIND SE, E AND P if that P happened to request an upgrade earlier in the day than you. There is NO preferential treatment if you had bought a Y/M fare and secured your upgrade "confirmation" weeks or months ago. Therefore, it is critical to plan your travel to achieve SE even if it means taking a few more trips in cheap discount economy tickets than flying J or C for about the same $$$, not to mention the other perks that come with SE status.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter how you received your status, just that you have it. There may be some out there who don't think I deserve mine since I don't pay for my flights out of my pocket but rather my companies. Many different perspectives, I just happen to be on the winning team this time for this year. Remember, things always change.
This is one of the reasons why I am changing my travel pattern this year from a semi annual trip to Asia in paid business class at $8,000/trip, to more frequent trips but in either flexible or discount economy using SSWU/SWU. My spent is about the same but I shall be SE by late spring or early summer, and shall enjoy the benefits until February 2008.
You have to know the rules of the game to be a winner of the game.
You have to know the rules of the game to be a winner of the game.
Actually I've decided to just the opposite. Rather than buying 6 or 7 M fares to Europe a year and playing this type of game on AC on longish leisure weekend trips I'm going to do just 4 trips and stay longer and purchase discounted J fares.
On BA. Same leisure travel budget and no headaches. :)
That is something as a 100% leisure traveller that I have finally woken up to with these final downgrades of the AC E program. It isn't worth spending the extra time on planes chasing these benefits anymore. Discounted J class gives you lounge access anyway and after all that's basically all you are getting with E along with a few upgrade certs thrown in that unless you are SE are becoming much more of a lottery than they ever were. AC Elite was great in the '90's and was well worth going for. Now it doesn't fit my particular situation just as I don't fit what I presume is AC's typical E anymore. As KH said years ago sometimes it's best to be your own FF program. :cool:
Imagine if the J cabin is full and the waitlist has not cleared. Would you consider "pulling rank" over any E's or P's in the J cabin and see if one can be downgraded in order for you as the SE to have the seat.
I'm thinking of instances where say an E or P on an u/g cert has already checked in and has the J BP. Does there come a time when a "quiet word" is had with a Concierge to see if something can be done?
I'm sure I will be fascinated by the answers :)
I'm thinking of instances where say an E or P on an u/g cert has already checked in and has the J BP....
Checked in from where,home or office???What happens when this individual has not shown up to the gate a half hour before departure on an international flight?? ;) (on a recent flight all passengers were on board 15 minutes before scheduled departure and we left 12 minutes early.) :)
Yep, I can vouch for that. When I was downgraded last year after an a/c change I had the BP in my hand with a check-in sequence # of <10. So I checked-in at least 20 places higher than the J capacity for the 343 but it made no difference.
So hence my theory in the previous post that a Concierge can override the rules for an SE and forcibly downgrade someone already checked-in. As I posted before, when it happened to me it was done in such a charming and positive manner by the YYZ Concierge I just smiled and thanked her for her help. :cool:
Ha-Ha, there speaks an SE :) .
But looking at it from an E that's a bit unfair don't you think?. Someone pays the extra long in advance to get the u/g confirmed and then the a/c changes on the day of the flight. An SE on a much lower fare booked just days ahead now jumps over the E in the line.
If the a/c had stayed the same as scheduled it would not have happened. Surely all those who originally had the confirmed J u/g on the original a/c have the priority?. Obviously not :confused:
Glad you do not believe you are entitled to your entitlements.
My guess is that any SE that has had a J seat "found" for them in a full cabin by a Concierge has been accomodated at the expense of some other poor b***er being bumped down.
How about AC personnel that are on a flight pass?I have personally witnessed staff boarding cards taken back when paying passengers arrived on a tight connection. ^
Try booking seats in rows 1-5 as well.If there is a downgrade,those in rows 6 and 7 lose out 1st,IMO.
:confused: :confused: :confused:
well it's been a while since I've had my aircraft downgraded. I have however taken a few flights on 767's by choice, HNL comes to mind, and once I did it to fly with my family, but other than that, it's not by choice.
But looking at it from an E that's a bit unfair don't you think?. Someone pays the extra long in advance to get the u/g confirmed and then the a/c changes on the day of the flight. An SE on a much lower fare booked just days ahead now jumps over the E in the line.
If the a/c had stayed the same as scheduled it would not have happened. Surely all those who originally had the confirmed J u/g on the original a/c have the priority?. Obviously not :confused:
The point I was making is for unforeseeable events it is not reasonable for AC to have some complex formula at hand to prioritize treatment. If a flight is cancelled or downgraded and there are a number of options available (another flight, travel in Y, etc.) and there is a limited amount of time available to triage the situation. Hence keep it simple -- go by status.
Furthermore it is in situations like this where one expects status to count....
Sorry but this statement is not always true.
Qualification of the SE status is based on distance flown, NOT revenue contribution.
7 Canada/Asia roundtrip in deep discount economy at about $1,500/trip return an SE status. Total spent +/-$10,000. 3 Canada/Asia roundtrips in J at about $8,000/trip return an E status. Total spent +/- $24,000.
Which customer did AC earn more profit? The SE or the E?
I've had a 343-763 change a couple of times on LHR-YYZ-LHR in the past three years. But each time the 763 was the 30J seat version so neutral.
Not sure how many of the 25J seat version AC has or whether they are more numerous than the 30J version.
Of course an SE should take precedence as they are typically spending more and flying more than the average E and their benefits allow for this.
Just my SE opinion and yes I have had my upgrade taken away on an AC change last year.
Imagine if the J cabin is full and the waitlist has not cleared. Would you consider "pulling rank" over any E's or P's in the J cabin and see if one can be downgraded in order for you as the SE to have the seat.
I'm thinking of instances where say an E or P on an u/g cert has already checked in and has the J BP. Does there come a time when a "quiet word" is had with a Concierge to see if something can be done?
I'm sure I will be fascinated by the answers :)
BOH, you really need to get yourself SE status -- anyone would think you are a victim here :).
But to answer your question -- no -- I would not ask a Gate Agent to bump an E or P with a confirmed upgrade in order to get into J -- and I doubt the Gate Agent would do it either. I rarely leave it that late anyway.
I was on a YYZ/FRA flight last week.There were 12 SE passengers.Lots of space in J cabin 24 hours in advance,full on departure with plenty of room in Y.
So many balls in the air to juggle.You wonder how the work gets done at times.
You are making a big assumption that the Gate Agent has this information -- I'd be surprised if the Gate Agent's system differentiates between upgrades made in advance of the 7 day windows and upgrades made within the window.
Gate Agents do, however, have access to status information
I maintain that the rules you are suggesting are way too complex. For instance, what would you do about a Prestige on a Y fare that upgraded 2 days before the flight? Should they have priority over a Prestige on an M fare who upgraded 8 days before the flight? Or an Elite who upgraded on a H fare 4 days before the flight. I could go on.... and defy you to come up with a "simple" formula that is fair to everyone. It just can't be done.
Are you an SE by any chance :p
You betcha!
Told you it was indefensible :p :p
I needed a good laugh too.............
Not always.There are some, :D ,who attain SE status by segments. ;)
In another thread "super comfort to club to premium Y??" you quote,"When you have the pleasure of sitting on the 767 as much as I do it is hard to make me happy.I probably end up spending more time on this aircraft than all other aircrafts combined, and rarely is it by choice."
:confused: :confused: :confused:
Interesting what the agent said about the issue if an SE buys a J or C tix though. I wonder if a Concierge would / could override "the no one will be downgraded/bumped involuntarily" bit. Personally I suspect they would.
I asked a question earlier about AC's ratio of 25J 763's to 30J ones - anyone know this or the routes they mainly tend to be deployed on?.
And shore9 - how do you deliberately book on a 25J 763? - I guess only via one of the travel web-sites with seatmaps?. The AC web-site only lists the aircraft as a 763 or 333 etc against any specific flight?
I use booking tools like expedia.ca or flyaow.com/classcwt.htm to check the seatmaps before I book. Last few trips have even stayed a 763 as oppose to being swapped to a 767 as well :)
Additionally, to the UK only, U class fares also permit an upgrade at time of ticket purchase.
But looking at it from an E that's a bit unfair don't you think?. Someone pays the extra long in advance to get the u/g confirmed and then the a/c changes on the day of the flight. An SE on a much lower fare booked just days ahead now jumps over the E in the line.
If the a/c had stayed the same as scheduled it would not have happened. Surely all those who originally had the confirmed J u/g on the original a/c have the priority?. Obviously not :confused:
I fully agree with that. I'm an E, and if a Prestige member who had an upgrade confirmed ahead of me got bumped back while I got the upgrade, I would consider myself lucky, but I don't believe that's how it should be played out. I think a confirmed upgrade is a confirmed upgrade, if AC cannot deliver that, then they should provide compensation, or do something to satisfy the customer, let's face it, it's their fault that there is no uniform J cabin, they emerged from bankruptcy over a year ago. I understand aircrafts go mechanical, but the customer should not be punished for this. People say that they buy Y/M fares for the flexibility. I bet that most people on this board who buy Y/M fares, buy them for the upgrade at time of booking. That's why I would buy one, and it appears that most here buy them for that reason as well. A pax who buys an L fare should not expect an upgrade everytime, however a pax who buys a Y/M fare should within reason expect an upgrade most of the time, yet AC feels different about this.
For example, if you have $16,000 in travel budget to make 2 semi-annual trips to HKG from YYZ on full business class, for the same money, it's better to take 7 trips in combination of flexible and discount economy fares using SSWU and SWU. You will be an SE instead of an E.
The key to win this game is to become an SE at minimum costs, until AC/AE wake up one day that its current methodology in awarding SE is flawed, and unfairly discriminate against some other high yield but low volume travellers.
my thinking is, do the time, you get the prize. If you fly 100K with AC/Star alliance you deserve Super Elite status. To buy full J fares on crazy INTL routes is spending a lot of money yes, but why should AC give you higher status, you chose to spend that, when you could have spent much less. Now for those who spend lots because they are forced to thats a different story. But someone who does a few big full J trips a year does not deserve, nor have the need for SE status, and they are rewarded well enough.
True, I hadn't thought of that.
Here's a friendly challenge - can an SE even start to defend this as being the fair way? :)
Who needs to defend it this if you are a passenger with SE status?You are considered their best customers.Those actions need to meet with the airline requirements of the day ;) .
I telephoned reservations in Montreal. The agent initially didn't have the answer but contacted his help desk/supervisor.
According to the agent, my reservation is "confirmed" and we will not be downgraded/bumped from J (unless we are unfortunate in an aircraft change).
He explained that AC does not oversell the J cabin. Therefore, all "confirmed" tickets will get a seat in J. If a SE buys a J/C ticket, then AC will ask for volunteers to give up their seat for compensation but no one will be downgraded/bumped involuntarily.
Therefore, no risk of being downgraded in this case.
(However, my fingers are still crossed that aircraft doesn't change to a 25J 763)
Good news LE2 - hope you enjoy the flight. Looks like your are 99% safe with your u/g ^
Interesting what the agent said about the issue if an SE buys a J or C tix though. I wonder if a Concierge would / could override "the no one will be downgraded/bumped involuntarily" bit. Personally I suspect they would.
I asked a question earlier about AC's ratio of 25J 763's to 30J ones - anyone know this or the routes they mainly tend to be deployed on?.
And shore9 - how do you deliberately book on a 25J 763? - I guess only via one of the travel web-sites with seatmaps?. The AC web-site only lists the aircraft as a 763 or 333 etc against any specific flight?
Since you keep asking I am going to assume you are jealous!!! :p
You don't have the status so you don't like the rules. Get the status and then enjoy the rules, until then stop crying about not being SE. ;)
Aeroplan upgrade certificates Vs. comp. upgrades.( passes)
Who should get bumped first there?
comp. upgrades get booked in J class while certificates are in I. When I asked this question the other day, I was just given a dumb look. Still didn't get a clear answer on this one. Would love to know your thoughts. This should keep all of you going for a while. ;)
"shore9" is correct. No conflict here: When a Passholder upgrades online, the e-ticket for that segment is actually changed to J class, thus allowing one to board without having to surrender a certificate. Tickets for those using upgrade certificates, however, remain unchanged, with the certificate representing the authority to fly upfront. Even when prebooked, it's in I class, a subset to J.
Based on personal experience, downgrade will be strictly by status, and then fare as a subset within that status. Therefore, all P's will be bumped first and within that P group, the cheapest fare will be bumped first. Once you are bumped, you are merely put back on the airport upgrade standby list behind SE and E regardless (and definitely no preferential treatment) that you have bought a Y/M fare to secure that upgrade confirmation weeks or months in advance.
For instance if you are on a YYZ - YVR flight and the aircraft is changed I would expect AC to offer a downgraded J pax the option of taking a different flight and remaining in J. If you are on a LIM to YYZ flight then obviously this option does not exist.
Under these "unplanned" circumstances I think AC should keep it real simple. Do the best for everyone but where "prioritization" is required go strictly by status.
You have to know the rules of the game to be a winner of the game.
You are correct. Let's just hope those rules don't change as sometimes happens and the benefit dissappears.
However, I'm interested in knowing what happens when J becomes oversold.
Do the same "rules" apply i.e. all upgrades are re-assessed based on status?
Just as an update:
On 6 February the availability was showing:
J2 C0 Y9 M9 B9 H9 V9 Q9 L9 N9 U9 A9 I0
On 7 February the availability is now showing:
J0 C0 Y9 M9 B9 H9 V9 Q9 L9 N9 U9 A9 I0
Again, we have CONFIRMED I class upgrades using my Prestige SWUs from M fares purchased back in July 2005.
Is there a risk of being downgraded in this case?
Do these types of downgrades happen often?
Will I be contacted prior to my flight if we are downgraded in order to maybe make alternate arrangements?
I'm planning on using Web Check-in and going to the airport early. Other than that, is there anything that I can do to help ensure we won't be the ones downgraded?
Would there be any benefit in phoning AC? If so, who should I contact?
One thing for sure. No matter how it gets done. There will always be some that won't agree. The previous posts should prove that. :)
Furthermore it is in situations like this where one expects status to count....
Nope, just as easy to look at who had the u/g confirmed first (by Y/M fares), before the 2/4/7 day windows. I don't believe an a/c change normally happens with just minutes to go either as there are too many things to take into account (loaded baggage to change over, fuel loading etc) so there should be plenty of time to look.
It's not "a complex formula" either. It's very simple - those with a confirmed u/g in advance of the u/g windows should have priority. Within the 2/4/7 windows I fully agree - status should count in the event of unforseen circumstances.
Are you an SE by any chance :p
This one make me chuckle. I have had this happen to me. It's one thing when this happens and they catch you before you are boarded. It's very embarrassing when you are already seated in the aircraft. My experience once was that just as we were about to leave on a YVR HNL flight...the gate agent came on and asked me to move from row 2 to row 35. That draws enough attention. I had to pick up all my stuff and move. Once the initial embarrassement passed, I really didn't mind as I was on my way to Hawaii and really that was what mattered.
I have also been onboard a YYZ YUL flight and heard the announcement " would the following passengers present themselves to the front of the aircraft with all your belongings". The reason for that one was that the flight that had just left came back mechanical. Oh well... c'est la vie! :)
However on balance, I would think you would be very unlucky to miss out.
Worst comes to worst and you get downgraded, you can ask to be put on another flight. If you explain the circumstances someone ought to be flexible.
The availability is currently showing:
J2 C0 Y9 M9 B9 H9 V9 Q9 L9 N9 U9 A9 I0
(I'm not sure if this means that J class is close to being oversold)
We have CONFIRMED I class upgrades using my Prestige SWUs from M fares purchased back in July 2005.
Is there a risk of being downgraded in this case?
How about if availability becomes J0?
Do these types of downgrades happen often?
I'm planning on using Web Check-in and going to the airport early. Other than that, is there anything that I can do to help ensure we won't be the ones downgraded?
How can you confirm upgrades using SWU's on an M fare more than a week in advance? My understanding is that even SE's can only do it 7 days in advance. What am I missing here?
I took a LHR-YYZ flight in December that I had upgraded weeks in advance for as it was an M fare. The a/c shown at the time of the u/g confirmation was a 333 but when I checked in the agent said it had been changed to a 763.
The agent then implied that my previous confirmed u/g was now invalid and I would now have to be considered with whoever else was on the list. I say "implied" because she did not directly say my u/g was cancelled but she could not just automatically transfer it over, even though she looked and said there was plenty of J room left on the 763.
Anyway, she had to phone someone to get the u/g transferred across and thankfully it happened. But as I said, I was left with the impression that if there were any waitlisted SE's they would have been considered ahead of me, even though I had got the u/g confirmed well in advance.
Perhaps Andrew could comment on the policy of an u/g already confirmed from "I" class but then the aircraft is changed?. Is a new list then created and SE's who booked later on a lower fare able to jump ahead in the line.
Aeroplan upgrade certificates Vs. comp. upgrades.( passes)
Who should get bumped first there?
comp. upgrades get booked in J class while certificates are in I. When I asked this question the other day, I was just given a dumb look. Still didn't get a clear answer on this one. Would love to know your thoughts. This should keep all of you going for a while. ;)
Don't the passes get the upgrades, as they only need J availability, while the rest of us need I availability. We all know that J availability will be much higher than I, so my guess is that pass holders get it. Certs get first shot at the upgrade, but if they must wait to till the gate, then the pass holder gets it.
You are right!
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Posted by mike |