Friday, January 9, 2009
We are here for your safety, not to bring you a second drink.
- The safety announcements are now mostly automated. With the video screens, they do nothing; with the audio automation, they mime the part. With none of the automation, they still do the spiel.
- As soon as the plane pulls out of 10,000 feet, out comes the food and beverage (if there is any). That seems to be a priority, like to get it out of the way early. No matter if it's a long haul flight, they want to get it done and be done with it.
- "Bistro" service, i.e. where you're handed a bag of snacks as you walk on the plane seems to further reduce the amount of work for the FA's.
So, as the gentleman from Spirit said, if they are there for our safety, what exactly are they doing? It doesn't make me feel any more safe or comfy as they sit in the back and chat, while the whole notion of service has evaporated. Heaven forbid you DO ask for a second drink. Heaven forbid if you don't have exact change (heard an announcement recently on TWA that if you don't have exact change, no tickie, no laundry).
Is this a union thing, or what's going on? I remember when not too long ago, the FA's in the aisles were always there, constantly refreshing beverages, etc. Now, it's one pass through, and that's it.
So, if they are there for my safety (which I don't deny they are highly trained in the case of emergency), and there are no emergencies readily present, what do they do?
This is nothing against FA's, but it seems that somehow they've leveraged a "less work", more attitude policy somehow.
I wrote to the airline with more specific information and received a reply that it would be "looked into."
If you have ever flown an Asian carrier today or an American carrier 5 years ago, you will remember how today's service was different then. Several us were debating why American carriers are great for customer service but lousy in cabin service or provide wide swings in attentiveness. If airlines provided a superior product in the air, you wouldn't have to answer letters from irate customers. It becomes a vicious cycle.
Overall, I think service is simply fair in the air, however, if you request anything out of the ordinary, you receive an outright expression of bothering them. I have found that the FAs are busy and if you ask them for another glass of water or anything else equally normal, you will get the signature sarcastic eyes rolling or an exaggerated sigh. I don't believe my requests are demanding much nor do I make demands for that matter. I also fail to understand the let's clean up all the meal service quickly so we can go and hide in the galley and complain about passenger in 15D who wants another Sprite. It is okay to go back into the cabin, no one is going to bite.
Secondly, FAs may treat passengers differently according to their fare paid. I have been openly passed over for meal selection because I was upgrading using miles. The idea management should distill in FAs is to provide equal service amongs its passengers. I also remember when FAs in F would pronounce your name before meal taking.
I respect the FA position considering all of the training involved. In Europe, it is a professional position. In the US, it appears to be less so as you have younger people enter and you can even work part-time!
Advice-
FAs- Be pleasant and polite and the world will respond in kind.
Passengers- Ditto!
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"Fly me to the moon and let me earn alot of miles."
the differencies from crew to crew is what astonishes me more than the (expected) mental/cultural/geografic-background differencies and
when only looking at UA-service, than the (several times now) experienced lowest levels (even in business class, worse then with other carriers in eco and I just don't tolerate this anymore and avoid these routings to the best by switching to other StarCarriers like NZ) are the UA transpacific segments to/from Australia. Even (very tolerant) Gisela will never again 'ride' UA transpacific (in buisness).
everyone wants first class service on $400 international fares and are expected to be happy and full of energy the whole flight.
When did it start to matter how much fare a customer paid for getting different service? So if we get seat sale fare... we deserve crappy treatment? Does it take a full fare to get FA's attention?
Their pay has not gone down, but the service has.
As to their pay, they have chosen their job, and as I recall, they probably knew what the pay was.
And, to my point, based on what they did just a few years ago, they are doing considerably less work now, and with a whole lot of attitude thrown in.
Sorry to be a "killjoy", but these folks are required to do a lot less, hence the point of the posting.
What a brilliant thought! Thank you so much for mentioning a small idea that now seems quite obvious. In a few days I'll make the haul from LAX to AMS to NBO with two kids. I imagine that bringing some homemade cookies to share with nearby passengers might lessen their annoyance to be around two well-behaved but still subadult passengers...!
Standard flying hours have crept up considerably (in some cases at much as 30%). Maximum daily duty times have crept up. Load factors have increased (which has a direct impact on workload). Passenger:cabin crew ratios have increased. Turnaround times have been compressed. Employment benefits have been eroded.
The whole experience of flying has become more difficult, not just for passengers, but for crews (both flight deck and cabin) as well. Obviously, the difference is that we are paying for the privilege, while crews are being paid.
But nonetheless, in qualitative terms of a fair wage for a fair days work, the compensation levels are sinking.
I think that I caught her off guard because she knew the service had been lousy and, I guess, could not imagine why anyone would dream of thanking her. I don't remember all of the details at this late date, but she told me that she didn't feel well, or there were some personal problems, or some combination thereof. After we chatted for a few minutes, she felt better and so did I.
On the other hand...UA boasts entire routes in which I always seem to enjoy consistently inferior service. As has already been pointed out, UA's trans-Pacific service is typically quite mediocre. But my personal nomination for the route in which I nearly always endured subpar and indifferent service are my flights from IAD to MIA. Over the last six years or so, I have flown this route over two dozen times, and except for a couple of occasions, FA's do not bother with a pre-departure drink, taking my jacket, returning my jacket or even smiling. After spending an entire five minutes feeding and watering the passengers, the FAs hide behind tightly drawn curtains for the entire duration of the trip. My last such journey in January prompted me to write my little love poem to UA entitled "50 Ways to Lose Your Flyer:"
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/004576.html
The scary part is that I am scheduled to do this trip again on April 17. One curious observation is that flights from MIA back to IAD do not seem to be nearly as bad.
FA's are on airplanes becuase the FAA requires them to be there. The lack of service (ie Bistro meals or no meal service) is not the FA's fault but the airlines bean counters trying to make more profit.
Consider change fees and fare structures, where one airline does something and the others follow almost immediately.
If the FAA were to rescind its FA requirement, the FA's would be gone immediately.
(BTW: Bringing enough to share is a great way to make friends with the folks around you http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif )
I think the comment about the service received vs. fare paid was not complaining about the different levels of service between first and coach. The issue is that once you are seated in first, the level of service should be the same, regardless of whether you paid full fare, got an upgrade, are using a free award ticket, or bought a discount premium ticket from the airline during a fare sale. Some airlines are notorious for providing different levels of service to passengers in the same premium cabin based on the fare they paid. Others don't even list this information on the passenger manifest, making it impossible for the flight attendants to do this, even sub-consciously.
FAs need to meet the requirements of the companies they serve, and exceed them if they expect to attain longevity and preferred routes (union contracts aside). If they fail to meet the companies expectations them perhaps the company should pursue a different qualification process.
Unfortunately, FAs are sometimes perceived as “sky waitresses”. Though this may seem harsh it can bear some truth. I have seen FAs who don’t do the needed safety checks. Not requiring pax to put their seat in the full upright position prior to landing comes to mind. I hate having to tell the person in front of me to do this, and I do tell them, it’s for my safety. Failing to confront people who use cell phones & laptops during taxi which I seen. Those FAs are sky waitresses. Lot’s of FAs do an unnoticed great job, which lots of us on this board do recognize.
If FAs desire to be viewed as safety managers then they need to renegotiate their union contract, until then there is a large degree of customer service that is expected by both the airline and pax. FAs must complete all safety requirements and service the pax to the best of their ability even if that entails serving a second Sprite and do so without contempt.
Recent United flight from London to Chicago bore this out. Had to go and ask twice for another glass of water. The FAs were in the galley, but conversing.
Having said that, I've received GREAT service on many shorter flights.
I certainly agree with you about the FA's on AA! I think they are fantastic and with very minor exceptions, I give them all my highest accolades.
Based on your description of the life of a FA, my question is: Given the low pay, constant disrespect and abuse, organized labor problems, etc, why in anyone's mind would one want to be subject to these conditions? There have to be better jobs out there paying greater compensation and providing higher degrees of respect. When I heard a passenger state behind a FA's back on a recent AA flight that FA's are glorified "waitresses" and he does not respect them because they did not have to go through the extensive training that he did for his job, I wanted to pop him first...then educate him (I took the latter approach-discretion over valor). Did I convince him? Probably not.
If this schnook is indicative of the opinion and attitude of many passengers, I sympathize with the plight of the FA's even more...even if each flight had one or two of these kind of people on board...these people make their jobs even more challenging and when they become empowered, it would probably make many FA's want to change careers.
There are many careers I have personally selected that I would never participate in...a police officer, firefighter and airline flight attendant all come to mind. Personally, I am gratified there are people who choose to make these tough positions as their career...and I deeply respect them for doing this.
Perhaps this is the big problem today with some people...taking things for granted and not giving the respect that people really deserve.
The next time all of us are out and about, interacting with society, think about this:
Look for someone performing a job that you would not even consider doing because it was maybe not your calling in life...or even beneath you for doing it...then thank the person for giving 100 percent because their job just enhanced your life...this is what a police officer, a firefighter, a trash collector, a public school teacher in a rough area and yes, even a flight attendant deserve (and there are thousands of other careers in this category).
People who take honorable jobs which come with the disrespect are my personal heroes...so it does not bother me if one of those people are having a not-so-good day and I have to get out of my seat once in awhile to ask for a drink of water on a flight. Generally, a smile and a show of gratitude works wonders to perhaps make their day a little better.
Many times I wonder, how do these people put up with so much for such little compensation? That fact alone makes these people very special in my mind! And...no, I am not married to a flight attendant nor do I know of any personally...I just have a great deal of respect for them...and the rest of my fellow working stiffs!
I respect the FA position considering all of the training involved. In Europe, it is a professional position. In the US, it appears to be less so as you have younger people enter and you can even work part-time!
You hit the nail on the head with one word. Professionalism. It doesn't matter what your getting paid or what job your doing. Act like a professional. Do the job to the best of your abilities. Live up to what you agreed to when you took the job; not for your employer, but for your own sense of self worth. No matter what you do, Strive to be the best!
I've stopped being disappointed when I receive poor service (in the air and elsewhere). It happens too often. It's now the pleasant surprise when I do encounter the professional who respects their job. If I had to generalize, I'd agree with most of the previous statements (Older FA's, AA and non-US based carriers) seem to deliver better service.
This thread reminds me of a book I once read that stuck with me to this day. I Know It When I See It : A Modern Fable About Quality by John Guaspari. It's a short book, but delivers a major message.
Was the first time I actually felt compelled to mail a thank you letter on behalf of a flight attendant.
William
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